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I have recently been having a problem starting my 2CV6 Club on colder mornings.
January 7, 2009 by Denis
QUESTION
I have recently been having a problem starting my Citroën 2CV6 Club on colder mornings. This started a few weeks ago–shortly after the first big snow storm. If the temperature is mid-20’s or lower, the engine will not start. The carburetor floods pouring raw fuel over the top of the engine. If I warm the carburetor and manifold with a hair dryer for about 10-15 minutes, the car will start. Then, for the rest of the day, it will start immediately, so long as it hasn’t set too long. I’ve taken to starting mid-day at work to insure a start to go home. Battery is in excellent condition–the car cranks right over.
I have replaced the carburetor, the oil breather/filler, the coil, and the spark plugs. Changing the spark plugs had an immediate effect. The old ones were carbon fouled. Although I initially suspected water in the gas, it now seems to me that the ignition is weak and warming the carburetor and anifold helps to vaporize the fuel for an easier start.
This is a relatively recent problem as I’ve previously had no trouble starting regularly when the temperature was as low as 6-degrees.
Mark Paulhus
ANSWER
Hi Mark,
A couple of our best experts stepped right up to give you their best advise. First up is Les Woods who has a shop in Takoma Park, MD . Les has worked on plenty of Citroën 2CVs and here is what he has to offer:
LES WOODS
Assuming the basics have been eliminated previously, i.e., compression is good, valve clearances are within specs, point condition is good, dwell angle and timing are correct, these would be my thoughts:
First, if the carburetor is spilling gas over the top of the engine, the needle valve above the float chamber is either icing up, or worn out, or, falling victim to a sticking float. The needle valve should shut off the fuel flow long before gas pours out over the top of the engine.
Since the carburetor has been replaced, I would ask if it was replaced with a new or used component. If the carburetor is new, then we can safely assume that the reason for the sticking needle valve/float is fuel related, i.e., the fuel is contaminated with either water or dirt particles. If the carburetor is a used one, especially if it is one that was used and left to sit for a long time, then water and or dirt in the fuel supply is still a possibility, but then the sticking float problem could also stem from white corrosion deposits in the float chamber.
Have you tried gas line anti-freeze? A can of this with a fill up could help to absorb moisture in the tank. I have never had a 2CV mechanical fuel pump that produced excessive pressure, but a vacuum gauge/fuel pressure tester could confirm that the pump is working properly.
I am wondering if the ignition system is producing a weak spark, not firing the plugs properly, leading the driver to doing a lot of pumping of the gas pedal while cranking for long periods of time, leading to the gas spill. Check the carburetor while someone pumps the accelerator pedal, and be certain that the gas isn’t coming from something like a leaky accelerator pump, rather than actually spilling out of the top of the float chamber of the carburetor.
Most 2CV starting problems can be traced to high resistance spark plug wires, pitted points, dwell angle and/or timing issues, rather than a faulty fuel supply.
Hope this helps,
Les
Next up is Dave Burnham who has a Citroën repair and restoration business in Delanson, NY . Dave knows Citroëns better than most guys know their wife. Here’s what he had to say:
DAVE BURNHAM
I would tell him to make sure his valves are adjusted properly and that the points and timing are set correctly. Maybe suggest getting a 123 electronic ignition. He could try a bottle of isopropanol (not methanol) in the fuel tank just in case he does have a little water in the fuel. Sometimes water will stay in the bottom of the float bowl in the carburetor too, even if it is not in the fuel tank.
Have him check to make sure the choke is completely shut when the choke cable is pulled all the way and then also make sure he can tip the choke blade a little bit open with his fingers when shut (to make sure it doesn’t stick). The choke should also open slightly from the choke pull off vacuum pot when the engine starts.
Sometimes those vacuum pull offs actually fall off the carburetor, so make sure it is still on there.
Hope that helps.
Dave
Well, I don’t have much to add to that, so good luck and please let us know if our experts helped by leaving a comment. If anyone has any other suggestions to help Mark out, please leave your comments as well. We all learn by sharing. Thanks a bunch Les and Dave. Remember, you can reach Les, Dave and our other Citroën Mechanics by going to our classified section and checking out their business cards. Les is getting a new one made, but you can reach him for now at FrenchCarGuy@gmail.com .
Denis
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Hi there,
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Let me know if you’re interested.
Thanks..
It has taken quite some time to arrive at the solution to my problem. As is often the case, it turned out to be a combination of problems.
The primary problem was a relatively large vacuum leak where the intake tubes are welded to the carburetor mounting base. Lesser vacuum leaks were found beneath the carburetor spacer block, where there was no gasket, and where the manifold mounts to the heads. Torquing to spec fixed the latter. I was able to get the manifold welded at work by a very talented welder. In retrospect, the original carburetor was probably not at fault, a second rebuilt replacement caused some stumbling, but the third has been working quite nicely.
The second problem was an oil burning on cold start traced to stuck oil rings. I regret that I never checked compression prior to repair. I had new cylinder barrels, pistons, and rings installed. This solved the oil burning problem, and may have contributed to improving the other problem.
My car does not like NGK spark plugs, so EYQUEM are now standard, and I replaced the spark plug wires. The coil had previously been replaced, so that was left as is. I purchased my car with 123-ignition, and timing didn’t look bad, but I checked the installation and found the unit not fully seated in the counterbore. Also, some oil was found in the cavity behind the unit. The oil may have been from a leak I had from the short hose between the oil breather and dipstick tube. Cleaned everything out, reassembled and re-timed. Car is running great now.
Mark Paulhuss last blog post..Cold Snowy Morning